Hmm... I need to find out myself. I don't know what is the answer. I'll do some investigation and get back to you if I find an anything. You should email the people at Discover Card as they probably could give you help..

Thanks for the advise..

I do have my experian report dated today and it does show the pulls and there was no pull..

A larger issue occurred to me though..

They clearly ran the report twice based on the same data - but my scores were off by 2 points..

You might make the case that there is a time factor or that the first calculation was in 2009, the second calculation was in 2010 so they take something in to account, but for it to be off by 2 points in 3 weeks seems odd to me..

Based on my experience, there might be a good case to be made that this is not a reliable process that using it may leave someone vulnerable to a tortious action..

As it stands now, if they had done it right and I had passed, I could have probably given notice and set a start date for the first of the month. Now we have to wait until Tuesday (Monday being a holiday) and when you are trying to get a specific job, time is not on your side. A really good headhunter told me "time is the enemy of all deals"...

This is getting to be just crazy..

BG Check company swears they pulled my credit last week to re-score me..

The problem is that the data is exactly the same as it was last month and does not match what the CRA shows..

The CRA also confirmed to me on the phone and on my reports that the BG Check company has only made ONE PULL and it was last month.

So the BG check company is reporting erroneous data to my potential employer. They INSIST their data is correct..

I stand a very good chance of not getting hired unless these guys get their act together..

I don't want anything to get ugly - I just want this job, I just want them to do an actual credit inquiry and score me based on that. They are so convinced that it is impossible for them to error that they won't hardly talk to me - they tell me "if you have a problem, call the CRA".

Well I called the CRA and the CRA says they didnt pull my data..

Short of threatening legal action, does anyone have any ideas? I don't want to look vindictive or hot headed or crazy to my employer and I would rather just get the job,.

I did have the CRA send the BG company my report via USPS, but that could take a week and the fact is, I should not have to wait...

It sounds like you are going to have to do just that....wait.

I know it's unbelievably hard but at this point it's a little out of your control.

I think I would consider some legal remedy though with the data collection agency the potential employer uses if you are absolutely sure they've dropped the ball.

Playing with someones life is well...nothing to play with !..

When I'm more awake I can check Pacer and see if there's any lawsuits against the backround checking place if you want to pm their name.

Have you tried anyone hire-up at the background checking place other than the 1-800 no CSR?.

Google the backround checking company name and executives and see what you come up with. You should come up with their headquarters, and possibly a list of some middle/upper management from such sights as hoovers, bizjournal, mata etc..

There was a lawsuit I remember reading about someone suing the backround checking place because they gave the employer false info and stood by their ground. I can't remember the name of it now..

This post has been edited by beli: 21 January 2010 - 06:36 AM..

I did find the name of some VIPs and I am working that angle.

Last night, out of pure frustration, I started digging on google for lawsuits and other events. I did find a few and I found one judgment for a willful violation of the FCRA. That was pretty interesting as the situation was different, but not entirely dissimilar..

The CRA is mailing the BG company a current credit report and I think the employer believes me that there is a problem..

I am a pretty assertive person and I am really good at keeping my cool in the most stressful situations - I know the employer is talking to the BG company which I did not think would happen - and now I am REALLY glad that all of my interactions have been very professional - a little pushy, but professional..

I will PM you some info, thanks for the help...

This is something that has been bothering me about all of this..

Why is there not (or is there?) any kind of control or proof when a credit report is pulled from a CRA?.

In this case where they pull your credit, then claim to pull it again, why is there not some kind of control where the company can say "this report was generated from control ID# 000ABC123-011510"?.

I would think that in this situation, that kind of code would help the BG company not make an error - and they could say "look pal, take this number and go talk to the CRA, they will confirm that we did a proper pull on the day we claimed and here is your proof"..

Maybe this problem is just so unusual, but this is something that must have happened before - especially if people are getting a lot of rescores for a mortgage or something...

I very much believe there IS when they pull from the CRA. the problem seems to be that the BG company is NOT pulling from the CRA but from a data reseller..

Or at least, that's what i'm getting out of it...

What do you mean by "data reseller"?.

The first pull was directly from Experian, but they claim the second one was as well - yet it was not..

I wonder if I may have come close to figuring this out:.

The BG company is Kroll Factual Data - there are many threads on here about them and they are in many many areas of security, identification and risk mitigation..

So here are some interesting points and a potential theory:.

1. Kroll is a CRA. People do not always think of them as such, but they are and they freely admit that they are..

2. There are numerous threads on here where people go for a mortgage and later see hard pulls on their CR from a company they did not authorize - the company is Kroll and it usually turns out that they authorized a loan company to pull their credit and they pull their credit from Kroll who then pulls it from the 3 main CRAs..

3. I am a little foggy on this part, but Kroll seems to retain all the information they pull from the other CRAs. Perhaps they have aspirations to one day be one of the big CRAs or perhaps they just believe in keeping all the data that they acquire but it does seem that they have the capacity to act as a sort of grey market reseller of CRs from the big 3 - even if the big 3 are not specifically aware of this..

4. The second report they ran on me said the data was from "Experian - kfd (Auto)". Perhaps Kroll is charged for each pull from Experian and because of the fact that it is not that common for reports to change much inside of 30 days, their system may intercept requests for new CRs within a certain number of days and automatically fetch a cached version of the report. If this is the case, it probably works in over 99% of cases and is probably a money saver when you have people running reports on a person multiple times. Not only that, but in terms of the consumer, it may be an advantage in that you could go to 5 mortgage brokers and if they all pull your credit through Kroll, perhaps only the first pull is "real" and the subsequent ones within 30 days just use the cached report - this would save Kroll money and save the consumer from multiple pulls..

How many times does someone have a problem and then go and fix their credit and have it UPDATED inside of 3 weeks? I would say almost never..

In fact, it would not surprise me of most employees were either not aware of this process (if it exists) or if they are, it's just not something they connect the dots on.

Still reading the Kroll threads (there are a ton of them) but this seems like a plausible theory at the moment...

May have some good news soon.

Not sure what they did, but they DID get my CORRECT CR and said that it does show all the corrections.

Have to see how it goes, possibly hear something today...

Absolutely they are charged for every pull. I didn't realize they (kroll) were pulling the reports directly from the CRAs..

And yeah, i'm sure you're right about the cache. it's proven by you not seeing more recent pulls on your reports. either designed into the system or accidental via use of a web cache device (however dates would not change) on their network..

Since the CRA has sent a paper report directly to kroll, I dont see how they could continue to deny you once they receive it..

You must have a very understanding future employer. I hope your luck holds..

This post has been edited by vintagespeed: 22 January 2010 - 03:41 PM..

A web cache server (does anyone even use those any more?) would not cache a secure transaction like a credit pull..

The most likely explanation is that it is by design..

It looks like one of their investigators got curious and pulled the actual report - I now have another inquiry from them..

The employer has been great - I want them, they want me, it's fate - but when I told them I fixed it all in about 3 weeks they said "oh well you know it can take a month or two to show up in the bureau" and I had to say "no, I mean fixed at the bureau".

They actually did not think that was possible - then to have the BG company say "uh, no, not fixed" was really putting my credibility on the line..

Still waiting on the score, trying to be prepared if it does not pass because I really don't know their formula..

Fingers crossed..

This post has been edited by Brawndo: 22 January 2010 - 04:26 PM..

Some of the bureaus DO have satellite operations. Discussions were had about that on these boards during my early days when people were trying to figure out why PG had different data than the bureaus were showing when one pulled directly from a bureau. I don'tremember that being an EXP issue though, but it is not out of the realm of reason especially given that five years have passed since those discussions....

As to Kroll, they are essentially no different than any of the 3:1 crap marketers that people use for daily pulls. They sell a shiny bauble that some companies have bought into and take at face value the way some actually believe 3:1 reports to be accurate when obtained through any of the daily pull services.

It matters not one whit that your CCT is an EXP product...it is still not a real report. This holds as true here as it does for anyone that tries to use it in a dispute.....

Thanks for weighing in centex..

I keep hearing your point about a lot of these services not being the real report. I am trying to take it on faith because the people saying this have a lot more experience than I do. I can see how this might be the case for a mortgage or something and there is a paper report on it's way to me (and Kroll) in the mail..

I believe that the Kroll system does not always get a new EX CR for every request and I think that this is probably a transparent cost saving measure that most people are simply not aware of because in the vast majority of situations, it does not create a problem and in the cases where it is a problem, most consumers are probably not as aware of the problem and as motivated to do something about it and of the ones that are, how many have a good idea of what to do?.

In doing research into this problem, I can say that I probably have more information on Kroll than they have on me..

Yes they are, we use them at all of our edge sites, globally. for practicality reasons, you have to have a type of edge cache when you centralize.... we dont all work in a self-contained environment...

FWIW from CCT you can get a free EXP report as often as you like by..........

Going to "My Credit Center",.

Look under the "My Credit Resources" box.

Click the "Dispute Information" link..

Click the "Experian Online Dispute" link..

Verify your address and click the "Submit>>" button..

And voila. One genuine EXP backdoor report complete with all softs listed. Just 3 mouse clicks...

Or you can get in this way too.

Http://www.experian.com/disputes/.

What ever you do...don't dispute something that is wrong on any DAILY F.A.C.O. with-out seeing what it is showing direct from THE BIG 3..

So here is an update:.

My credit was pulled and scored and despite moving 5/10 collection and CO items to paid, my score is still just a couple points from passing..

For those just tuning in, the employer has the BG check company run a formula on your credit report taking into account the positive and negative information and generating a percent score (it is NOT a "percentile") that represents the ratio of "good" account info to "bad". The only other thing I know is that medical collections are counted "less" than normal TLs..

The most frustrating thing about this process is actually how sloppy most people have been in looking at it, discussing it and scoring it..

Example:.

1. On my first report, one TL, a collection item paid off 5 years ago was not scored as a collection item (Error #1).

2. On my second report, they did not pull new credit info (Error #2) and then they re-scored my old data and my score dropped when the mentioned TL was coded as a paid collection..

3. On my third report - when I finally got them to pull an actual, new CR, they re-scored me but in the process, they put all your TLs into this grid and the negative TLs are shaded grey and the neutral/positive TLs are shaded white. Well, one of the paid collection items is shaded grey on the current report where as all similar items are shaded white. (Error #3) It may be that they counted it properly and just messed up on the shading, but I have NO WAY of verifying this..

I am a a hair from a passing score and I have a this questionable item (ie: was the improperly shaded TL scored properly or not?) and I can't get anyone to take it seriously. When I told the BG company, they just said to take it up with the employer - but the BG company is the one that generated the score and ran it through a Q/C process..

When I bring up these kinds of issues, people just start saying "oh, well, you know... it can take months for things to be corrected at the credit bureau... give it some time, these things don't change over night..

I do not have access to the scoring algorithm so there is no way to verify that my credit reports are being "scored" correctly and I have no way to tell what they are holding against me.

For example, I have a large, paid off mortgage with a SINGLE 30 day late payment (happened at closing - slow escrow) and that TL is listed in the report summary as an "adverse trade line". I have a few more items I can take care of - I think one will do a PFD but I am not sure if I should because I don't know if it is better to have a deleted collections TL or a paid collections TL - their scoring process is about the ratio "accounts in good standing" so whether I delete or pay, I don't know how each status will affect the ratio..

This is an extremely frustrating process..

This post has been edited by Brawndo: 28 January 2010 - 01:48 PM..

Well, that's some bad news. I was hoping the update would be positive..

Is the door now closed with the employer, or are they giving you a window to get things fixed by? I understand the frustration - how do you know what to fix, if you don't know how the "score" works..

I'm glad I'm not in your shoes, and I hope it works out for the best...

Thanks..

The one good part in all of this is that the hiring manager is still interested..

After the drama of the second check and my dispute and all that, the manager wants to wait a month for the next check - so probably the end of Feb or first week of March will be another check (based on my preparedness - I will be the one to ask for it around that time)..

I have 1 month to get it over the finish line. In theory, I might have a chance after that, but I really want to make it happen this time because there are no guarantees I will get another shot..

I attacked the so called "low hanging fruit" and paid off collections for around $50, $50, $130 and $250 and one item was already paid and I had it updated to show paid..

Now the low hanging fruit - if you can call it that are as such:.

1. ~ $300 at a CA - I called these guys last month and they offered me a "one time offer" of PFD for a PIF or a 20% discount to PIF. I declined the PFD because I had cheaper options. They said they would not offer it again, but I really have a hard time believing that. (this debt is barely inside of SOL - it was a phone bill).

2. ~ $280 MEDICAL collection at a local medical office over a dispute - I could use whychats letter but I am not super up on the HIPPA stuff. Frankly if it made the TL go away for 30-60 days, that would suit my immediate purpose. The other option is to go into the office, plunk down cash and say "call off your dogs, get the TL deleted and I will PIF". Can an OC get a CA to delete their TL? (if it matters, I never gave this CA a "promise to pay" which they tried repeatedly to extract from me - I think that would have allowed them to keep the account). This debt is still within SOL..

3. ~ $600 to a CA for an electric bill from way back. They wont negotiate and the debt is outside of SOL..

I could probably pay #1+#2 OR #3, but that would tap my resources for the next few weeks..

I also have several collection items that are paid off.

1. A collection with an Attorney Office from 5 years ago. It has not reported since 2005 and being attorneys, this does not seem like an ideal target..

2. A CA here in TX was "collecting" on a gas bill from a prior address. The weird part is that I moved but still used the same gas company. It apparently took them a couple years to figure out that the balance due on the old house was owed by me but they just added it to my bill last year and I paid it - yet this CA was still reporting it as an open collection until I called them in January. They closed it, but it does look like every CA TL on my report hurts me - these guys seem vulnerable to the nutcase letter because they never made any money off me - so why risk keeping a closed/paid TL up when they were not even paid by me?.

3. Fair Credit Outsourcing - they had a $50ish balance from an apartment I moved out of. I did pay this in January, but I think I can still TFC them. The other cool thing is that the apartment was sold a couple years ago so records may be in disarray and as it has been paid, they may think it wise to just delete..

3. RJM - they had a balance from a bank account I closed. They let me pay 50% for a PIF. Still, it was about 6 years ago and they may also think it's not worth it to keep the TL if I nutcase them..

4. Local agency - I paid these guys ~$250ish to close a utility bill from a few years ago. Could nutcase letter them..

5. ~ $1400 ish - this is a loan from an online university I attended for a couple months about 8 years ago. My last payment was well over 4 years ago so I know it is out of SOL. This CA is REALLY shady - I called them and told them they were beyond SOL and they acted like they could not understand what I meant. Maybe I could offer a silly low PIF / PFD? They seem likely to screw me and not hold up their end. Not sure about these guys.



So anyway - I think if I could get 1 delete and 1 PIF that I would probably make it but it would be close.

I need to make 3 points..

From my 51% score, I did 1 delete and 4 PIFs and made 6 points taking me to 57% (I need 60%).

So 2 PIF and spraying out a bunch of letters and hoping for 1 delete might get me there - just not sure..

This is such an unusual situation because I am not trying to get a loan or bring up my FICO - I am trying to conform to an unknown formula for "credit worthyness".

If anyone has some ideas, I am all ears but I need to improve or delete 3 TLs and what makes me nervous is that even though I could (barely) afford to PIF 2 of the items, those are the only "guaranteed" changes I can make in 30 days - anything else with letters is a roll of the dice in terms of outcome...

You listed a mortgage with a single 30 day late - you could work a goodwill letter up to the lender and try to get them to fix the late due to the escrow problem. That should help a little.

Again, it's tough to determine based on a closed system - what exactly they're looking for..

Have you disputed everything negative in one way or another?.

I'd do that along with PFDs, you're on a tight timeline, though...

Well now..

I just checked the bank and this payday is one where we get paid for 3 weeks instead of 2..

That is going to help a LOT...

I hope you get it figured out...i think it is sad you have to spend so much $ on out of SOL things to get the CHANCE of getting a job...my fingers are crossed for you..

FYI, it is an actual job offer. It's not like I am doing this to apply.

The chance element is just in the sense that if the company felt they were doing poorly, they could put on a hiring freeze or do a layoff - but they are doing really well so once I get this fixed, it is as close to a sure thing as anything in life ever is..

I just paid $300 to the company that offered the "one time only" PFD - and thy jumped at a PIF/PFD..

I think that with this being the end of the month, today is the day that people are motivated..

A deletion will really help me because it most affects the ratio of bad to good..

I was about to call the Dr. that has the $280ish bill but I am thinking that even if I paid him, there is no guarantee the CA will go away (soon). I think I need to do the whychat letter to make them go away..

I am kind of fascinated by the fact that I can call a CA about a debt that is clearly out of SOL and they show NO interest whatever in trying to make a deal. I called the CA with an old electric bill that was about $600 and they are all "what do you want?" I thought these people worked on commission or something. This agent said they dont negotiate but that I should just pay it. I told her it was time barred and she said "you still have to pay it", etc, round and round..

I offered her half and she said she would have an answer in 30-45 days. I said don't bother if you can't get an answer in 10 days...

So $900 later, I have 2 PFDs paid and pending.

This is getting expensive!.

I have a feeling that those 2 will put me over, but I should probably attack a few other TLs and see if I can get anything else scrubbed before the next show time...

On the bright side.. you'll have a new job!..

You bet. This is very insightful and something everyone should keep in mind. The month's end is when most people are struggling to meet quota, maximize a pay bonus, etc. Especially in sales positions and bill collectors are, in a very real way, in sales. The companies I worked at often made a concious effort to do deals with vendors at that time. We could get some amazing discounts.

PFD is a dicey, difficult thing but the rules are most likely to be bent a bit when the incentives are aligned. Great idea...

I just checked and the ~$600 TL is already deleted based on my CCT pulls..

The problem I had with the background check originally was that after making a lot of changes in a short period of time, the BG company did not pull a fresh report (and did not even believe they didn't pull a fresh report)..

So once the other deletion shows up, I can call the CRA and have them send an updated report to the BG company well before my next BG check..

So how interesting will it be if:.

1. I have the CRA send them the current report.

2. I have them "re-check" inside their apparent 30 day period during which they seem to use the last pull.

3. Their "check" shows old data even though they have current data as mailed to them from the CRA?.

It kind of puts them in a position where they are likely to mess up...