Hmm... I need to find out myself. I don't know what is the right answer to your question. I'll do some research and get back to you if I got an answer. You should email the people at Lending Tree as they probably can help you..

Send them a letter and tell them they are in violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1974. (LOL)..

Have you ever sent a cease and desist letter to a creditor for an amount over 3K? The only time a cease and desist letter should be used is if the debt is past the SOL, paid, or the debt truely isn't yours. Advice like that will get people SUED..

A cease and desist letter gives a creditor just about one option. That is to communicate with you one more time to let you know their course of action. That communication is likely to be delivered to you through a process server, especially for a debt of over 3K..

Gib..

They are in violation of the clean air act by poluting the air with their Bull Shi* and violating the EPA by poluting the rivers and streams with the run off from their pi**ing on consumers...

I do not know if it's is on the credit report yet, I will get that tomorrow, but when I called CCB in January to pay a double payment since I skipped December, they were the ones that told me that my acct. has been charged off and given to NCO..

My question now is, should I wait until I hear from them again, or should I just proceed with the validation letter now even though they sent that letter Dec. 30 and I have yet to respond?.

Thanks to all above for your quick responses, I greatly appreciate it...

While what you have said here is quite correct it doen't go far enough..

Cease & Desist can be very dangerous if improperly used as the poster has stated but if it is properly used it can be a powerful tool..

It can be used to prevent collectors from contacting parents or relatives who might otherwise be getting harrassed by collecotors or used to protect you from being contacted at your place of employment thereby saving you from workplace embarrassment and/or harrassment. There are also numerous other ways in which C&D can be used..

As usual, a tool is only as useful as it's operator who must be thoroughly knowledgeable in it's use in order to get maximum results and benefits...

Ouch. I didn't mean to give bad advice. I thought the cease & desist letter stopped them from reporting something to the CRAs if they hadn't already. Thank you for correcting this...

You have already lost some very minor benefits as a result your failure to respond with validation demand within that initial 30 days following their initial contact with you..

The word initial is extremely important in helping you decide what to do and when to do it. It is also integral to knowing what your rights are under the law and whether or not a violation of law has occurred. That is true whether you responed timely or not for the simple reason that many mandates of the law are predicated on that simple sounding word. That word is the hinge pin upon which many decisions must be made from time to time. Most of the time it isn't operative at all but in a small number of situations it is of paramount importance..

So whether or not to validate is almost never a decision that hinges upon the 30 day rule. The answer is almost always yes, validate and waste no more time doing so..

But although validation seems simple enough it really isn't so simple at all. Like any other tool, getting a thorough knowledge of how to use it is imperative if you want to use it correctly. Far too often we see the disasterous results of those who attempt to use such tools who know little or nothing about them in reality..

Let me illustrate..

As our ability to earn degenerates, our need for credit increases dramatically until what we thought was just a rainy day problem which would soon be over but when the problem continues we then find ourselves in deep water. Staggering debt and it's ensuing problems is growing at a tremendous pace and little or no relief is in sight. That means that desperate people are often willing to try just about anything to alleviate their problems..

One of the forums I am active in is currently discussing the latest thing to come down the pike in the way of debt termination. It is called Notarial Protest and is a proceedure still used today in rare situations within financial institutions. The last known court case dealing with Notarial Protest was in the 19th Century. The year was 1858 if I remember correctly. The normal useage of Notarial Protest is in interbank situations where some check or other has been dishonored although it can theoretically be used in any situation involving negotiable instruments of debt which is what a check is as well as are Federal Reserve Notes(currency), money orders and many other types of such instruments..

For simplification purposes let us say that a check is presented (presentment) to a bank for payment but has insufficient funds in that bank to permit payment. (dishonor) then a protest can be drawn up and signed before a notary public and taken before a court of law on a motion for smmary judgment. While the process is a more complcated than that, the above will suffice for the purposes of this discussion..

So, now we have discovered a valuable new tool with which to thwart the efforts of our creditors..

Here is what we shall do. The collector demands payment of us (presentment) but we are going to blindside this jerk and teach him a new lesson. So we dishonor his demand by means of a validation letter which will dispute (dishonor) his claim and we can then proceed to the nearest Notary Public and have him witness a letter of Notarial Protest which we shall take before a court of law and demand motion for summary judgment against the creditor. The Notary Public is an officer of the court so he can issue such documents which a judge has no other option but to sign and then you can enforce it against the creditor..

The twists and turns in futile attempts to explain why the above theory is so powerful are already nearly legion and each one presented is usually more convoluted than the last. I would strongly advise the use of that and many other theories if you are seriously applying for the position of court jester for the day. Otherwise forget it...

Good Heavens no! (LOL) A cease & desist is normally a demand for an invitation to the next available session of debtor's court. It is exactly the same as a written refusal to pay and has exactly the same force and effect. But as a matter of fact I would far rather send a flat out refusal to pay than I had a standard Cease & Desist. Even though they carry the same legal force and effect the Refusal to Pay might very well lead to an erroneous conclusion and subsequent action on the part of the collector which might be used to ones advantage. But a full and unmodified cease & desist is an almost invitation to get sued..

If it is modified so as to stipulate that it can only be construed as being applicable to one's place of employment and not to his home then he has not slammed the door on the debt collector but rather only protected his employment, the source of income which will probably be his only means of paying them..

Relatives who are being bugged by collectors can use a full cease & desist with impunity because they cannot be sued for that which they did not owe..

I have a pretty fair discussion of that with sample cease & desist letters in my resources forum...

Once again, I thank each of you for your help..

I am doing the validation letter this a.m. (re their letter to me dated Dec. 30 of which I was unaware was in my possession)..

Ques. 1. By sending this Validation letter to them now, instead of waiting until I hear from them again, am I not admitting that I did receive their correspondence dated Dec. 30 and just chose not to doing anything about it, and that now, after the 30 days, I am sending the letter? Is this ok?; and.

Ques. 2. On their letter it has an NCO, Washington, DC address, but the payment stub on the bottom of said letter has a Philadelphia, PA address. Address the letter to the DC office, and letter closes with "Sincerely, TOM CLARK (typed, not signed). Do I add his name c/o NCO or just address the letter to NCO Financial Systems, Inc...

I promise, I will try not to bother any of you again!!!.

In advance, thanks to much...

Bill,.

What you have posted seemed interesting for a second, But then I looked up the definition...

A. a formal notarial statement drawn up on behalf of a creditor and declaring that the debtor has dishonoured a bill of exchange or promissory note..

It seems to be for creditors versus debtors not the other way around...

<bump>.

Once again, I thank each of you for your help..

I am doing the validation letter this a.m. (re their letter to me dated Dec. 30 of which I was unaware was in my possession)..

Ques. 1. By sending this Validation letter to them now, instead of waiting until I hear from them again, am I not admitting that I did receive their correspondence dated Dec. 30 and just chose not to doing anything about it, and that now, after the 30 days, I am sending the letter? Is this ok?; and.

Ques. 2. On their letter it has an NCO, Washington, DC address, but the payment stub on the bottom of said letter has a Philadelphia, PA address. Address the letter to the DC office, and letter closes with "Sincerely, TOM CLARK (typed, not signed). Do I add his name c/o NCO or just address the letter to NCO Financial Systems, Inc...

I promise, I will try not to bother any of you again!!!.

In advance, thanks to much...

To answer #2 I have no answer..Call the CRA and ask them the addy that is listed on your reports..

Ques. 1. By sending this Validation letter to them now, instead of waiting until I hear from them again, am I not admitting that I did receive their correspondence dated Dec. 30 and just chose not to doing anything about it, and that now, after the 30 days, I am sending the letter? Is this ok?;.

Yes send it it's ok....

Sorry you did not read or understand where I was coming from. What you say is exactly what I was pointing out..

And the main point I was making is that these days people are so desperate for solutions to their problems that they will grab anything, twist it in almost unimaginable ways and use it to try to resolve their problems and if somebody comes up with some hot new idea like Notarial Protest and many more people will pay hard to come by money they should have used to help resolve their problems to buy these ludicrous theories..

People out there are actually spending $5,000 to $10,000 or more for exactly that kind of garbage..

I spoke to one man on the phone one day who told me that he first spent $750 and got 3 books and a CD telling him how to terminate his debt problems. Except it was full of legal forms and legal mumbo-jumbo he simply could not make heads nor tails out of. So he called them up and said he could not understand all that so they fixed him up with a "paralegal" to help him understand and that only cost him another $3,000..

Then they fired that paralegal and he had to pay another $3,000 for another paralegal he could not understand any better than the first one..

And his is not the only horror story I have heard and it isn't likely to be the last one I'll ever hear although I sure hope it is..

The lesson to be learned of course is that we cannot take things out of context and make them work the way we wished they worked instead of the way the actually were meant to work..

Of course, you and most folks realize that but there are also a multitude of people who don't...

My question now is, should I wait until I hear from them again?.

LRM216.

==============.

What do you expect to gain from waiting?.

The END ************************* LB 59..

Never mind...

He didnt say dont send it certified mail..he said dont write that into the letter...

DUH!! My bad Bill.....

Something like that..

Dear Sirs:.

It is my understanding that you claim I owe a debt. I would like to resolve this matter at the earliest possible moment. In order to accomplish that in an expeditious manner I must request that you validate your claim..

Please do so at your earliest convenience..

Sincerely.

_______________.

Joe Goodcredit.

While you may have other issues or points that you might also like to raise or establish in the same letter and if so should do so by all means the above is all in the world they should need. And if it isn't that's their problem..

The first sentence establishes the purpose of the letter and the second raises their hopes of getting cash fairly quickly once they comply with your seemingly simple request although you didn't say exactly how you intended to "resolve the matter" they will assume it is with cash. Of course, that is the case. You just didn't say whose cash would be used to resolve the matter..

They naturally assume it will be your cash and I full well intend to do all in my power to make damned good and sure it is their cash that will resolve the matter, not mine..

Just remember the Miranda law. No, not that one! The one that says that anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law..

So what does the wise criminal do when arrested?.

SHUT UP!.

Thats what he does. And of course demands to see a lawyer...

You just didn't say whose cash would be used to resolve the matter..

They naturally assume it will be your cash and I full well intend to do all in my power to make damned good and sure it is their cash that will resolve the matter, not mine..

Exactly!!!.

LOL..

Gee! They should give the teacher a nice shiny red apple for that(LOL).

I disagree with that and some disagree with me..

OOOOOOH NO! CRAs have 30 days to complete their investigation. Then they have to respond to you in a reasonable time thereafter. I contend that the CAs have to have the completed validation in your hands in a reasonable length of time. Lots of difference...

*after cleaning the egg off my face, glad my skin is pretty thick* :-).

Thanks, Bill and Knox!..

No egg just advice..take it for what it's worth....

I take all advice as constructive! I truly appreciate it!..

You betcha! Every time and without fail..

While you hope to high heaven you never see the inside of a courtroom you still have to conduct yourself in accordance with what the judge is likely to rule if you ever do get inside one..

The plaintiff says he mailed you a letter then in the judge's eyes he mailed it beyond a shadow of a doubt..

The defendant(you) say you mailed something the judge says "I'll believe it if you can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.".

It might not be fair even though it is supposed to be a court of equity, but that's just the way it is..

All courts are assumed to be courts of equity but nothing could be further from the truth...

Ok..I have an update on this and need advice:.

I disputed this Cap1 account with TU as "not mine" (which it is not) on 2/14. I received CMRRR on 2/22. I mailed validation to RMA on 2/27. The CMRRR is dated and signed on 3/3. On 3/8, I recieve a collection/settlement letter dated 3/4. I am not sure how to proceed.

From my readings on the board (and which I will search for information now) this is a violation on RMA under FDCPA 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]. Am I correct???..

I am unsure of what TOP stands for (not in the CN Glossary). Care to explain?.

Thanks!..

Bump, again.

I can't believe no one has an opinion on this.........

I can not locate a similiar situation in the Archives......but, thank for reading...

I will try to help you if you will send me an email...

If RMA sent you a collection letter (check the postmark) after they signed for your validation request, and they never validated, then it is a violation..

However, RMA will almost never respond to validation attempts with anything but collection notices. I've been through them twice now. One time the line just disappeared, the other time I got an apology letter from them after sending an estoppel to their corporate headquarters in atlanta. (search for my past postings, I think I put it all on creditnet).

1. Don't call the CA, someone posted above that you should call the CA for their address , no don't do this. Especially dont call NCO or RMA, it will only serve to piss you off greatly and wont help your case because they wont tell you jack. You may also end up getting trapped into saying something you dont want to say. ya I'm paranoid..

Their are many ways to find an address of a CA out there...one way is to ask members of this board who've dealt with them before. another way is to find their website (search on google or something).

I personally believe you should clearly spell out every item in your letter to them to indicate that you know what you are talking about, even though you may not. Either way they arent going to take you seriously 99% of the time. But at least if you spell everything out you have something more to show the judge should it ever come to that, and they wont be able to say you werent clear with your requests...