Good question... I dunno what is the answer. I'll do some research and get back to you if I find an good answer. You should email the people at Lending Tree as they probably could give you help..

...MORE...we have even had.

[TROLLS].

That wanted everybody to give up CREDIT CARDS and use CASH or CHECKS!!!.

THIS IS NOT>CASH AND CHECKS.COM..

Thank you, George..

As always, your brevity enhances your remarks..

(The hallmark of a good writer)..

Scrivener..

It's a term that refers to flatulence. Don't ask me how I knew that...

I hope this isn't too lengthy for newcomers, but I noticed that one Troll was suggesting it was unethical to remove information about events that really happened, or accounts that really were yours, from a credit report. Which could imply that one of the primary purposes of this board is unethical..

Problems with this:.

(1) Totally accurate information is hard to find on many credit reports. Some collection agencies take advantage of the (unethical) negligence of the CRA's and distort the truth about real events and real accounts. Once distorted, it's no longer the truth. Ask yourself this: if the choice is between information that's twice as bad as what really happened, or information that's removed entirely, which choice is more ethical? Or fair, or just, or moral, or legal?.

(2) Removing derogatory (and often libelous) information from your credit report does NOT help you to stiff your previous creditors. If indeed they end up stiffed, they have already been stiffed. It's already happened. The banking ststem is very intolerant of slowly-paid debts, and they get charged off rather quickly. If they end up in the greasy hands of a collection agency, you're dealing with someone who has a dubious claim to any payment..

I don't believe that a "holder in due course" for bad debts can properly exist..

(3) Paying old debts to collection agencies encourages their illegal activities, which are invariably unethical as well. It subsidizes the collection agency's purchase of really bad debts, those of people who never intended to repay them. The original creditor can only be made whole, i.e. receive the full amount of a charged-off account, if it doesn't sell the account to a collection agency. It guaranteed it would lose money on YOUR account when it gave up, lumped it together with all the other bad accounts, and sold it. There's absolutely no way it can benefit now if you pay the collection agency.



Trolls tend to ignore these real issues. They rely on hit-and-run innuendos about people in situations not of their own making, who now have to make difficult decisions about how to use scarce resources to achieve the most ethical result. Ironically enough, while Trolls try to suppress genuine ethical issues, they claim for themselves a monopoly on ethics..

That's why some of us don't like Trolls...

As the previous posters have already answered this question more than adequately, I will add my 2 cents..

I will proudly respond to this question, since I am often the first to call a person a troll, whether they are or aren't. For me, a troll is anyone who would rather be argumentitive, give false info., be a jerk in general, etc. rather than accept a "humble" attitude and spend some time researching, learning, and asking "legitimate" questions to improve their reports. Most 'trolls' give some indication of their 'true' intention within a few posts and in my personal opinion, most people have enough difficulty figuring out how to get their credit fixed without dealing with the type of people (trolls) who add little to the board (if they are legitimately looking to correct their report but are contrary and/or egotistical judgemental maniacs) or those who are intentionally here to mislead and disrupt(those who work for the "enemy" or are somewhat "insane" and like to see chaos). I have seen many people "temporarily" mislead by these trolls because of various reasons and it pains me to see this..

By no means am I 'irrationally obsessed' by them, but more correctly 'irrationally obsessed' with people getting correct and accurate info. and also seeing people recognize the "truth" without the help of "vets" or whoever may expose the "trolls" for what they truly are.(on this board and in life in general)..

All too often the point of this board seems to be how to get out of paying your debts with no consequences...

Scrivener,.

Get in debt real bad and start having collectors harass you in any way they see fit, then you will change your tune about ethics in regards to debt collectors..

I felt the same way you did until it happened to me about 7-8 years ago. CA's are real nice when you are giving them everything they want and not questioning the crap/lies/incorrect info they put on your credit reports..

Then they throw ethics out the door themselves, so I freely do the same..

My advice, don't pay anything until the CA's prove it is your debt. Even if you know it is your debt, make them prove it..

NCO, Gulf State, Arrow, RMA..these places wouldnt be half as bad as they are today, and probably would not be in business if people questioned them a little, or held them to the letter of the law..

And, if CA's were ethical themselves, there wouldnt be a need for the FDCPA or FCRA...

I didn't ask the question to be argumentative. I believe CreditNet is an invaluable service. It offered me a second chance when I desperately needed one..

While I attended law school, I slowly, insidiously accumulated credit card debt. I tried to keep up with the payments, but ultimately failed. The result: four charged-off credit card accounts. All four were sent to CA's. The calls started pouring in, day and night. I couldn't bear to reveal the problem to anyone.

My doctor prescribed Xanex, which helped control the episodes. (Sounds like a t.v. commercial). Long story short, two years elapsed before I was able to pay off my debts (actually, I still owe about 1,000 to one CC company and am currectly negotiating payment for deletion). Thanks to CreditNet, this is my only derog on any credit report..

I only mention this to convey that I am in no position to pass judgment on anyone for falling behind on payments. That is NOT my intention..

So. Allow me to retort..

Some of you say, "CA's are mean, slimy, they phone people early in the morning and call them deadbeats, buy debts for pennies on the dollar, etc... Thus, I won't pay them a dime.".

The truth is: I'm sure some CA's are mean and slimy. However, I've dealt with four (RMA, Triadvantage, NCO, and Collectech), and found that their attitudes closely mirrored my own. If I insulted them, they insulted me. If I dealt with them honestly and forthrightly, they responded in kind. Also, not one of them ever placed a derogatory mark on my credit reports. The OC had already placed the charge-off on all three reports, so they left things at that..

As for buying debts for pennies on the dollar... What do you expect? They're trying to collect bad debts, a very risky proposition. They're assuming the risk, so they get a discount. Sounds logical, to me..

Instead of blaming others for my predicament, I took responsibility for my actions. So a CA calls me a deadbeat. Big deal, I WAS a deadbeat. (Actually, no CA ever insulted me)..

My opinions are the product of my experience. As for those CA's who break the law, they should be punished under the law..

Scrivener..

You raise an interesting point..

I personally do not consider paying a collection agency as "paying your debt"as the debt was to the OC not to the unproductive "make work" pimples on the ass of our society..

Moreover,if someone is unable (or even unwilling) to pay an oc -then I agree, they should understand their actions will have consequences.However, EVERYTHING we do or don't do "has consequences" the point is that in the system of equal justice (in principle) the LAW is what must be upheld. So, even if someone does something completely illegal,they are still given the opportunity to "get off" without "paying the consequences"..

Do you feel that debtors are LESS entitled to the same legal protection of the laws of the land than say, a child molester or a murderer?..

Legality and morality are two separate concepts. Sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't..

I've used the LAW to have accurate, derogatory information deleted from my credit reports. In fact, without the LAW this would be nearly impossible..

However, while this is LEGAL, it certainly is NOT ethical. I, for example, repeatedly claimed a certain account was 'not mine' when, in fact, I know full well the acount WAS mine. I'd rather call a spade a spade and admit that I LIED. While I won't have to answer to the law for this transgression, I might just have to answer elsewhere..

My point: debtors are entitled to all the protections the law provides. But let's not pretend we're involved in some epic battle between good and evil. The truth (using legal loopholes to eradicate derogatory info), while less glamorous, is much closer to reality..

Scrivener..

Unfortunately, I fell into the uneducated/irrisponsible revolving credit trap as well, and have a financial past that's less then perfect ... I have and always will be responsible for repaying my debt, and fully accept all "fair" & "legal" consequences I justly deserve for screwing up my credit history back in '95..

I also, thought this forum was all about getting out of debt w/out owning up to personal responsibility ... Not until I received all my CR's did I fully understand what Cnet & CT stood for! I couldn't believe all the false info I found in CR's. Many accounts that were closed for years, were reporting as opened. Delinquent accounts I had paid in full, were reporting as $5000 still owed! Places I never lived or worked, even a wrong social security number were just some of the errors! Don't even get me started on accounts I've been paying back religiously for years, but are still reporting to the CRA's as though I haven't paid them dime ... A direct abuse of head strong CA's wanting to play "Judge, Jury and Executioner." (I could go on, the examples of CA's abusing the system is endless!).

Back then, I tried everything I could to pay back my delinquent debt, trying to make up for so many mistakes ... Some creditors worked with me and to them I'm grateful ... I will patronize your business again. Yet, for other creditors, all they wanted were "payment in full by midnight tonight" or else! I suppose in a perfect world that would be possible ... but lets get real ... It's far from a perfect world.

Criminals punished under our judicial system often get parol for all types of heinous crimes, but screw up your credit history just once, and all kinds of derogative information gets reported to the CRA's via the CA's for the next SEVEN years!!! There are no performance reviews at anytime during that seven year period ... The doors are shut and the key is tossed! (Pray you get a CA that will consistently report the truth and is willing to work with you ... ! ... Pray hard indeed!).

For those of you who agree with Zocrates ... Quite the contrary ... This site has helped me become more financially responsible then I ever thought possible. The "real world" credit education I continue to learn here, surpasses any class I've ever sat through, textbook or credit card fine print I've ever read! I truly regret not finding this site earlier in my life. I only hope as you read some of the posts here, you make a more heart felt attempt at "walking a mile in someone else's shoes" before assuming "most" people here at Cnet are an open and shut case ... looking for some kind of free ride!..

I hope this isn't too lengthy for newcomers, but I noticed that.

*one Troll was suggesting it was unethical to remove information about events that really happened, or accounts that really were yours, from a credit report..

RichGuy.

=========================.

*Removing something like this is no more unethical than a creditor who choses not to report such information...